Friday, 11 March 2011

Lesley Ann Downey Tape Transcript.

This is the full Lesley Ann Downey tape transcript taken by Leonard Milner, a shorthand typist of the Supreme court in 1966.


The tape was found within a brown suitcase, recovered from lost property at a train station, along with many other incriminating items such as photographs. The ticket to claim the suitcase was found in the spine of Myra Hindley's prayer book, which was what 'PB' stood for on the disposal plan below.

It's worth pointing out that they are urging her to put a scarf gag in her mouth, nothing sexual as many assume. The tape didn't indicate that they cut her fingers off either as is commonly said.


Two magnetic recording tapes were found in the brown suitcase. On one tape were two identical tracks of the voices of a man, a woman and a child. At the end of each of these tracks was a recording of two songs, 'Jolly St Nicholas' and 'The little Drummer Boy', which a witness recognised as being from a long-playing record by The Ray Conniff Singers, entitled 'We Wish You A Merry Christmas', the other tape contained four tracks: (a) A recording of music, (b) a 'Goon Show' recording, (c) a recording of a commentary by Freddie Grisewood, (d) a recording of a man, a woman and a child which was identical to the two tracks on the other tape. The witness said that having spoken to Brady and Hindley on many occasions he was able to identify the voices of the man and woman on the tape as those of the accused.

Transcript;

Man - This is track four.
Man - Get out of the fucking road.
Man - Get in the fucking basket.
(sound of door banging)
(crackling noise)
(footsteps-heavy)
(steps across the room and then a recording noise followed by blowing sound into the microphone)
(Footsteps)
Woman - (Voice quiet, unreadable)
(footsteps, light, walking across room; whispered conversation at the same time)
(footsteps)
(speech, distant, containing word 'upstairs'; then two footsteps)
Child - (screaming) Don't. Mum--Ah.
Woman - (whispering) Come on.
(footsteps)
Woman - (whispering) Shut up.
Child - (pleading) Oh, please.
Child - Oh. (then faintly:) Help - oh.
Child - Help. (followed by gurgling noise)
Woman - Sh. Sh.
Woman - Shut up. Shut UP.
(Screams and gurgles)
Child - Oh. Oh. Oh. (child crying)
Woman - (whispering) Keep - and you'll be all right.
Woman - (whispering) Go on.
(Quick footsteps mounting stairs, then entering room)
(Child crying, muffled)
Man - (whispering) Here.
Woman - Hush, hush. Go on.
(woman speaking, unreadable)
(Child crying)
Woman - You are all right. Hush, hush. Put it in your mouth - hush and shift that hand.
(child crying)
Woman- Put it in your mouth and keep it in and you'll be all right.
Woman - Put it in, stop it.
Woman- If you don't--shh.
(child crying)
Woman - In your mouth. Hush, hush. Shut up or I'll forget myself and hit you one. Keep it in.
(Child whimpering)
Man - Put it in.
Woman- (Spoken quickly) Put it in.
Man - (speaks, but words unreadable except for the word 'hand')
(footsteps)
Man - Put it in. Keep it in. Stop it now. Stop it now.
Woman - I'm only doing this and you'll be all right.
Woman - Put it in your mouth. Put it in--in.
(further words spoken by the woman which are unreadable except for 'put it in')
Woman - Will you stop it, stop it.
(womans voice unreadable)
(Child whimpering)
Woman - Shut--
Man - Quick. Put it in now.
(Child whimpering)
(retching noise)
Man - Just put it in now, love. Put it in now.
(retching noise)
Child - (muffled) What's this in for?
Man - Put it in.
Child - Can I just tell you summat? I must tell you summat. Please, take your hands off me a minute, please, please-- Mummy--please.
Child- I can't tell you.
(Grunting)
Child - (in quick sequence) I can't tell you, I can't breathe. Oh.
Child - I can't--Dad-Will you take your hands off me?
(man whispering)
Man - No. Tell me.
Child -  Please God.
Man - Tell me.
Child - I can't while you've got your hands on me.
(mumbling sound)
Man - Why don't you keep it in?
Child - Why? What are you going to do with me?
Man - I want some photographs,  that's all.
Man - Put it in.
Child - Don't undress me, will you?
Woman - That's right, don't --
Child - It hurts me. I want to see Mummy, honest to God.
Man - Put it in.
Child - I'll swear on the Bible.
Man - Put it in, and hurry up now. The quicker you do this, the quicker you'll get home.
Child - I've got to go, because I'm going out with my Mamma. Leave me, please. Help me, will you?
Man - Put it in your mouth and you'll be all right.
Child - Will you let me go when this is out?
Man - Yes. the longer it takes you to do this, the longer it takes you to get home.
Child - What are you going to do with me first?
Man - I'm going to take some photographs. Put it in your mouth.
Child - What for?
Man - Put it in your mouth. (pause) Right in.
Child - I'm not going to do owt.
Man - Put it in. If you don't keep that hand down, I'll  slit your neck. (pause) Put it in.
Child - Won't you let me go? Please.
Man - No, no. Put it in, stop talking.
Man - What's your name?
Child - Lesley.
Man - Lesley what?
Child - Ann.
Man - What's your second name?
Child - Westford. Westford.
Man - Westford?
Child - I have to get home before 8 o'clock. I got to get --(pause) Or I'll get killed if I don't. Honest to God.
Man - Yes.
(Quick footsteps of woman leaving room and going downstairs; then a click; then woman's footsteps coming upstairs; then eight longer strides)
Man - What is it?
Woman - I've left the light on.
Man - You 'ave?
Woman - So that -- (remainder of sentence unreadable)
(Child starts crying)
Child - It hurts me neck.
Man - Hush, put it in your mouth and you'll be all right.
Woman - Now listen, shurrup crying.
Child - (crying) It hurts on me --
Woman - (interrupting) Hush! Shut up. Now, put it in. Pull that hand away and don't dally and just keep your mouth shut, please.
Woman - Wait a bit, I'll put this on again. D'you get me?
Child - (whining) No, I -- (remainder of sentence unreadable)
Woman - Sh. Hush. Put that in your mouth. And again, packed more solid.
(whispered sentences, unreadable)
Child - I want to go home. Honest to god. I'll (further speech muffled but uninterrupted) -- before eight o'clock.
Woman - No, it's all right.
Man - Eh!
(Music commences, country-style tune followed by 'Jolly St Nicholas', during which various non-vocal noises can be heard; then tune 'The Little Drummer Boy' during which a voice speaks -unreadable)
(Three loud cracks, systematic, even-timed)
(Music- 'The Little Drummer Boy' -- goes fainter)
(Footsteps)
(Sounds on tape cease)

 
That's it, feel free to comment.



Click on any photo for larger version.

Myra and Ian on the Moors.
 
Transcript.


Ticket for car that Myra rented at time of kidnap of Kilbride.


The cryptic disposal plan.


Doodle by Ian Brady in exercise book, which contained the name 'John Kilbride'

Lesley Ann Downey, tied up.








-Typed by RK from; 'The Trial of Myra Hindley and Ian Brady' by J.Goodman


72 comments:

  1. I'm just wondering... where did you get this from? I had heard the tapes/transcripts were never released and never would be.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Lesley's mother, Ann West actually agreed to this one photo being used for a BBC documentary, hence the television lines as the picture here is obviously a screen shot

      Delete
    2. i'd never seen that photo before. I became aware of Hindley when I was around 8 (1988) she was making a bid for parole. They should have let her out and let the relatives at her. Brady could never have done this without her. That poor child. I'm not diminishing the murders of the other victims but this one was the most horrific. Without a doubt. The fear that poor girl must have felt. Hope Hindley is burning.

      Delete
  2. Angela, it was published in the book mentioned in the introduction. It's a book written by somebody who was at the trial.. The audio itself will never be released.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Also, I recommend the book by Jonathan Goodman to anybody who is interested in the case. It's not as well known as it should be, but there are many second-hand online.

    There is no question of authenticity of the transcript at all, as it's readily available to anyone who looks at the book!

    A UK newspaper also printed an extract from this quite a while ago. I did look online for this many times before I bought it and I couldn't find it... so I copied it all out here.

    ReplyDelete
  4. it is in the book yes and it is a very good book-this is the real transcript as he was typing up all that was in the trial and they played the tape at the trial-kudos for typing it all out schadenfruede!!! it is impossible to find online!

    ReplyDelete
  5. Thank you Svyatopolk, it did take a while, but as you said it was IMPOSSIBLE to find... despite the fact it is written in it's entirety in a book!

    ReplyDelete
  6. i wonder why - but maybe people are afraid of getting grief for writing it up. thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  7. The transcript can be found in a recent excellent book "One of Your Own" by Carol Ann Lee
    (3 loud cracks at end of transcript,3 camera tripod legs being opened)

    ReplyDelete
  8. Oh, interesting :) Also, I was going to buy that book even just for the full-length mugshots which are pretty rare.. thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  9. Well done Schadenfreude!

    Lots of people look online for the Tape transcript and the Photo!

    ReplyDelete
  10. Actually, this blog gets a suprising amount of traffic from all countries.. sarcasm not needed.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Gross. Glad these people are dead. No one ever has to look at their faces again. Disgusting.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. He fucking well will be if I ever come across him!

      Delete
    2. The sooner that c@nt dies the better. Evil, pure EVIL.

      Delete
    3. No but myra is and he should be x

      Delete
  12. Frankly I don't want the audio to be released - it's disturbing enough just reading. The solution may be - 'so don't listen to it' but curiosity gets the better of me in the end.

    That picture of Lesley tied up is the best reason I hate Brady and Hindley. It really makes my heart swell up and my stomach rise to my throat; it's so horrific even when cropped for obvious reasons and the quality being so god awful that the skin makes her looks more porcelain doll than an actual person

    ReplyDelete
  13. Myra is beautiful. RIP, sweetheart.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hope you get to spend some time with her...

      Delete
    2. well her damn ashes were allowed to be scattered on the moors which is a disgrace! As for being beautiful in your eyes then you must be a psycho like her! I agree she is a rip with a stone for a heart!

      Delete
  14. I would love to get my hands on Brady and Hindley, they are two disgusting, vile "people". My sympathies are with their poor victims and especially with their victims families. You simply cannot imagine the pain and heartache the victims families have went through for the rest of their lives.

    ReplyDelete
  15. that is the sickest thing i've ever read

    ReplyDelete
  16. god bless those poor children. Winnie Johnson should be made the patron saint of children for her unrelenting quest to find her little boy. they were all such innocent victims that's what makes their crimes so repulsive. I hope Brady rots in hell along with Hindley.

    ReplyDelete
  17. what kind of bullshit is that photo? - heinous for posting that, fake or not.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Photograph was shown on a television documentary and can easily be found in various places on the internet.

      Delete
  18. Rot in hell Hindley / Brady; I hope they stoke the fires plenty hot for you two fuckers!

    ReplyDelete
  19. This is awful. I wish I could kill Brady and hundley is in hell I hope! My heart goes out to all the victims and there families. Stuck for words?!

    ReplyDelete
  20. Let's take a step back and look at the situation.

    I can see the keywords you all search for that gets you here. What saints you all are.

    I see many of you got here searching for the actual audio! I must be 'heinous' for providing you with the thing you searched for mustn't I?

    Most of you also download the photograph of Lesley and proceed to give me grief because of it! The amount of comments I have to delete are ridiculous.

    Carry on, closet ghouls.

    ReplyDelete
  21. please can you tell me if Lesley Ann's mother heard the tape in its entirety?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The police had Lesley Ann Downey's mother listen to the tape, when Lesley's body was found, to confirm it was her daughter's voice.


      (Source; Topping: The Autobiography of the Police Chief in the Moors Murder Case. Peter Topping. 1989)

      Delete
  22. Hi,

    I completely agree with you! I find the abject hypocrisy of the 'viewing public' both vile and ludicrous. The Moors saga generate more newspaper sales than virtually any other news story. The sanctimonious way the public attempts to devour every titbit - true or otherwise - just beggars belief! To say nothing of the complete exploitation of the facts by a motley crue of retired police officers, pseudo shrinks (who should be struck off the medical register for breaching confidentiality)and, I have to say, those individuals connected with the victims families. Oh and Christine Hart, that deluded, hack reporter, who inhabits a fantasy land, all of her own making.

    I particularly liked your remark about 'deleted comments'... I can just imagine the nature of them!

    I could be an amateur psychologist and call this insatiable obsession for every implicit detail a form of living life vicariously...
    How many visitors to pornographic websites; individuals who take an especial interest in the 'youthful' end of the market would sanctimonously savage every facet of Ian Brady and Myra Hindley's persona. Has anyone read Peter Sotos' book? Please do, its a brilliant read, and covers this subject far more expansively than I ever could!

    For the record... and I know this will attract a storm of abusive protest... I think Ian Brady should be freed. Yes, freed. Or at the very least sent to an open prison, with far less restrictions. Wouldn't this be a generous and merciful act of humanity? He has served almost 50 years in prison. He is living in one of the most abusive, regressive prison regimes in the county (has anyone read the Blom Cooper, Fallon enquiries?!?), and I believe he has endured this with a great deal of dignity. I do not condone his actions of 50 years ago, don't imagine that, but I believe we must, for once, demonstrate some mercy here. In saying this I am rejecting every savage attack from the assembled masses who will no doubt disagree with me.

    Out of interest... did anyone follow the Hutton enquiry? David Kelly? ...Anyone?! Tony Blair and his followers signed off the mass death and destruction of the Iraqi people, with flagrant disregard for the generations that were killed and tortured in the process. And he still walks among us... him and his murderous colleagues.

    Perhaps we should focus our attentions on those people who really deserve our animosity.

    Ok, that's me. Thank you Schadenfreude for your interesting and insightful blog! R

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you for eloquent, and suitably vitriolic, understanding. Such a rarity! I apologise for late reply.

      You are correct, when it comes to Mr. Brady there is no such thing as compassion. Not a drop of it. The hate-mob rules as far as justice is concerned but nobody gets up to complain of a war-monger who once sat as head of this country. Perhaps if they were to direct their anger at a more suitable recipient then they would see some change and not sit there foaming, unsure of just what they're so frustrated about.

      Brady describes himself as being a modern day folk devil, and he is completely right. The media has created a monster which, despite common belief, does not exist in Ashworth Hospital or anywhere else for that matter. He is an intelligent and, as you say, dignified person who has endured far more than those commenting could even begin to imagine. How easy it is for him, they say.

      Delete
  23. Hello there,

    Thanks for the positive comments! It's fairly out of character for me to have outbursts such as this, and I'm not one for making impassioned pleas on websites... that said, this is a subject I feel really strongly about ...and I think I've found a kindred spirit!

    I feel quite protective toward Ian Brady (although I dont think he needs my protection!)... I just think it outrageous that he has served almost 50 years in prison, and yet, even now, he is still denied the most basic of human rights. After enduring the horrors of Ashworth he has to justify his sanity in the most humiliating way, which he does, as I said, with the utmost dignity.
    I feel for the family of Keith Bennett, I really do, but they have a battery of support surrounding them. They continue to hound Ian when he's in no position to help them... he's tried in innumerable ways in the past to help with the 'search' but he was constantly thwarted in his efforts by the questionable motives of Greater Manchester Police. I live in the Greater Manchester area and I've had the misfortune of encountering one of their number on several occasions. I'm a volunteer mental health advocate and I've often had to support people who've had various run ins with the police. The coppers I've had dealings with would make Jim Davidson look like Billy Bragg, if you know what I mean. Thick as erm... 'pigswill'... prejudiced, parochial... Very little to negotiate with!
    As you say, to the moral majority Ian Brady is seen as a 'folk devil'... the majority being people with pitchforks and burning torches! Have you seen the website created by Alan Bennett? The average poster often describes, in vivid detail, the manner in which they would 'deal' with Ian were he ever to be released... Methods that would make (in the words of Mr Morrissey) even Caligula blush! They seem incapable of seeing the hypocrisy in their motives.

    I hope you continue to write to Ian, and offer him your support. I must say I really applaud your sensitivity in not revealing the contents of his letters. Much like him confidentiality is a really important issue to me. It makes me so angry when I see people 'selling' their letters from him, or revealing their contents to the press. I feel he's been exploited by virtually everyone he's ever met. There are a few exceptions to this ofcourse! I was horrified by the way his advocate was treated by the media earlier this year. This woman was rightly respectful of her clients privacy and dignity and she got thoroughly savaged for it. I thought it was despicable. Sadly, Miss Schadenfreude (great name for a website by the way) we sympathisers (for want of a better word!)seem to be in the minority!

    Off topic: I had a sneaky peek at your profile... I loved your film choices. Peeping Tom is a favourite of mine too! I was in Shetland a few months ago and took a pilgrimage to the island of Foula to see the location of Michael Powell's first film - The Edge of the World - if you ever get a chance do try and see it (think its released through the BFI) - really charming! Your 80's music choices... what might they be? I'm pretty eclectic in my tastes - everything from Abba to Zappa!
    Hope you have a lovely Christmas! R

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Once again, R, you hit the nail right on the head.

      I too feel protective, it is probably a very hard word for many who land here to get their heads around when discussing Mr. Brady, but it's true. We probably come across as sycophantic, a little bit mad, but if to have a shred of decency whilst others brandish their pitchforks is lunacy nowadays I will happily stay crazy. Sadistic descriptions of the torture they'd inflict on a 70 odd year old man! I have seen them.

      They'd also like to see him without lawyers advocates, people to talk to and basic care because, of course, he doesn't deserve it. He should be shut away from all and not one person should do their job when it involves him. These people really are on another planet.

      As for selling letters; how could they mean anything to anybody if it isn't their own name on the envelope? Why do they correspond with the man if they have so little interest and respect?


      Peeping Tom is a firm favourite, it's hard to find people who have even heard of it! I do love Manchester, a NE accent stands out like a sore thumb in a place like Ashton though!

      I'd love to talk in more detail with you, once I figure out how.



      Delete
    2. Oh, I nearly hit publish on some of the more 'colourful' comments I've received recently but decided that it wasn't worth it, even for the comedy value.

      Delete
    3. would you sill be saying this and have the same compassion if he had sexually abused tortured and murderd your child ? im just curious

      Delete
    4. He didn't though, did he? Which is exactly my point.

      I am not going to engage in pointless and abstract conversations, in which I pretend that Ian Brady had a profoundly negative effect on my life. It doesn't make sense to me to do such a thing.

      I don't understand it, but we are all programmed differently.

      If everybody felt the way you do, who would work in our criminal justice system, and within the institutions that house criminals? The whole system would be messed up, sometimes you have to have your own perspective, take a back seat, stop allowing the media to stir up anger within you, and stop imagining yourself to be the victim.

      Delete
  24. I'm reading through your comments. You both seem quite intelligent and open minded but I think you are intellectualising this too much. In trying to understand and relate to this monster, the victims of his crime are forgotten.

    I am all for free speech and enjoy the opportunity to read differing opinions, especially when presented in an articulate manner. In saying that, I do have to respectively disgaree with you both. This man is a child murderer who tortured his young victims... in my humble opinion he deserves nothing more than our utter contempt.

    I think that society's energy should be spent in preventing further crimes like this... looking into what makes a person commit these acts. Is there something we can do to help and protect these people when they are young - to stop them from growing up and acting out their worst fantasies? Of course there is; people in need go unnoticed in society every day. Abused children become abusers and so on. Not that I am trying to simplify this in any way. Basically I think that we should pour our energy into prevention. In my opinion, he has lost his chance at redemption and it would be the greatest insult to the victims to release him.

    Who determines what is enough 'time' served for murder? For multiple murders? For the murder of children? It's a tough question but to me the answer seems simple. Is 50 years enough time? Of course not. There will NEVER be enough time. Never. That doesn't mean he should be released. Let him rot.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hello Scout, thank you for taking the time to comment.

      Re. your comment on the other post: "Do you ever imagine what you would do if it were your child who was..." well, here I have the benefit of not being involved and, perhaps wrong to some, my interest lies with the perpetrators of such crimes; it is both my vocation and fascination.

      I will not pretend to be ignorant of the degree at which such things upset people, I suppose I am blessed with the ability to feel less emotional about those things with which I have no involvement. I refuse to accept that this makes me a bad person, morality is never uniform. I am always taken aback by people like yourself who feel great empathy and can convey it in such an eloquent manner without ranting.

      As for the time served for multiple murder; the bar set here, to me, is the one at which a suspected terrorist who, as judged by a court, bombed a passenger plane out of the sky was released on compassionate grounds. Is it the way in which the murders were carried out, or something as trivial as age, sex, class and ethnicity of the victims which determines the sentence handed down to the murderer? Maybe not, political interests rank higher to those at the top than pure and simple 'justice'.

      I do not feel guilty for the correspondence, nothing I could say would give Ian Brady something as wonderful as we on the outside have, such as the feeling of his face in the sunlight on a carefree afternoon or the freedom to walk where he chooses and do what he truly wants to do.

      No, I might fill ten minutes with something to do but it will never equate to bettering his life in any way and, just the same, no amount of vitriol and punishment will ever bring those children back.

      Hope to hear from you again,

      RK.

      Delete
  25. This couple was really sick!! Thanks for posting this article, i was searching beacuse ysterday i saw crminal minds in investigation discovery, and i didnt believe that exist people like the moors. Greets from Chile!! BYE!!!

    ReplyDelete
  26. does anyone know what the cracking noise in the end is? please, need to know for my sanity's sake

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Somebody above suggests that it is the sound of tripod legs being opened.

      Delete
  27. Good Afternoon to everyone on this site.

    I am currently working with Alan Bennett on his website www.searchingforkeith.com and have recently set up a petition to the government to set up another search for little Keith Bennett who is the only victim of the moors murderers not to have been found. He has been on Saddleworth Moor 49 years this June.

    Can I ask if everyone on this site can sign the petition to help bring Keith home?

    The petition link is: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/40262

    We also have a Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/SearchingForKeithBennett and we have a Twitter account as well: @searchforkeith

    Thank you to everyone on this site for taking the time to help a family that have been desperate to find Keith for almost 49 years.

    LadyV
    Site Admin (on behalf of www.searchingforkeith.com)

    ReplyDelete
  28. they should of hung these 2 when it first came out, instead the bloody tax payer had to foot the bill to feed and bed them for another 30 odd years...if a dog bit u then u would put it to sleep, and I'd sooner of been bitten off a dog than what this pair did...if u look up sympathy in the dictionary u will find it in-between shit and syphilis........I rest my case...

    ReplyDelete
  29. What's sad about all the comments on this is that the anger we feel towards the murderers is just like the anger they felt towards their victims.
    I don't forgive them, but had we heard a tape of the abuse that they both suffered when they were innocent children we'd be wishing their abusers dead, and feeling terribly sorry for them.
    It's reassuring to know that this kind of behaviour doesn't just spring up at random; it's always people who've been abused who become abusers.
    I feel desperately sorry for the victims and their families. I also feel just as sorry for the murderers.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It is not true that the abused always become abusers! It is not, thank God, an inevitability! Early detection, intervention and/or education play a big part. I'm sure you did not intend to cause harm, but essentially those who are abused could well be readers of this blog and it is importantant that they know it is not inevitable, and therefore the cycle can be broken.

      The below is taken from

      http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20030206/do-sexually-abused-kids-become-abusers

      "Roughly one in 10 male victims of child sex abuse in a U.K. study later went on to abuse children as adults. But the risk was far greater for sexually victimized children who came from severely dysfunctional families. Family history of violence, sexual abuse by a female, maternal neglect, and lack of supervision were all associated with a threefold-increased risk that the abused would become an abuser. The study is reported in the Feb. 8 issue of The Lancet"

      Kind regards
      Graham

      Delete
    2. I strongly disagree with the poster, James, comment "that the anger we feel towards the murderers is just like the anger they felt towards their victims." Unless the court record is mostly false, Ian Brady is a sexual sadist with an antisocial personality disorder. He didn't torture, rape and murder ten year old Lesley Ann Downey because of anger towards her. At least the torture and rape were committed because he derived sexual pleasure from the acts while his psychopathology made him regard the child as an object in a manner consistent with how someone might think of a vibrator. Suffice to say, this has little similarity to the anger some people feel when hearing about a particularly heinous murder.

      Also, the statement that "it's always people who've been abused who become abusers" will be seen as only partly true if one examines the childhood history of these "serial killers." A discussion of just how much truth is in the statement also requires defining, as least roughly, what qualifies as "abused." Was Ted Bundy an abused child because he didn't know his biological father? Also, in many cases, the source for these stories of abuse comes from the killer himself, who is trying to make excuses for his nefarious acts. How much validity should we give to stories from murderers?

      Delete
  30. It must be wonderful to be so open minded and understanding and
    Debate rationally in regards to this, I envy those people. I used to be like that. Then I became a parent. Do I feel sorry for the person who feels just as sorry for victims as they do for the murderers? Oh yes. Oh dear. I would sleep so much easier if I were you.
    By the way, Myra was NOT abused, NOT a victim. And mental illness with Brady is obvious, but it didn't impair him enough to not be careful and hide evidence etc. knew what he was doing THERE. Evil can be selective. Reason and intellect can make normal emotion seem in rational. Not all people with a heart are lager drinking unemployed nutters who read tabloids, swear a lot about "protecting our kids" and going after local pervert with gang of equally bored mates.

    ReplyDelete
  31. I don't who you are my friend but you must be quite a sick twisted pervert to even think about creating a page like this!Do you get a sick thrill reading this transcription??!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hah! Hypocrite. You're the one who searched for, and read, the transcript you absolute moron. You'd be more upset if you couldn't find what you were looking for. Do you, by your own reasoning, get a sick thrill from reading it?

      Regarding your other, unpublished, comment: I am working-class and proud of it! You'd make a rubbish detective.

      Delete
  32. I find the polarised opinions here interesting, I think it comes down to pragmatism verses emotion, or more specifically globalism verses tribalism.

    We all have the strong desire to protect members of our own group, if we didn’t we wouldn’t be here at all. Think about a bird or a whale fighting to the death to protect their offspring from an attacker.

    In the interests of furthering our species this behaviour is hugely important and to be applauded, and because of the benefits of this behaviour it has become evolutionarily engrained in us by way of emotion and fundamental compulsion. But what does this mean in practical society? When we see a threat to our tribe we want it gone, we become enraged, protective, violent and vengeful. People such as Brady and Hindley inspire this response in us, this deep-seated desire to destroy them, punish them, hurt them as they have hurt us. These emotions are strong, and we often desire to respond with unreasonable force (think about the last time a rude comment from someone gave you the desire to punch them in their stupid face, this is obviously not a balanced response).

    Because of the desire to respond with unreasonable force, to destroy and eradicate the (perceived) threat, we must exaggerate the act, to turn the perpetrator into the devil and justify our desire, suddenly the rude comment which inspired your punch to the face becomes the 'incredibly rude comment' you were aghast, distraught, traumatised and well within your rights to respond with a light slap in the face.

    We hate, because the wish for the threat to go away, the problem is in the perceiving of the threat, is Ian Brady a threat to us? I doubt it any more, but of course he stands for all deviations from the society norm, he is all killers, all threats, we demonise and point our anger at him, shouting into the darkness to keep the monsters away.

    This is the same mechanism which allows us to celebrate murder, we kill millions in foreign countries and cheer our brave warriors and stoic politicians for 'getting the job done' for keeping us safe from the threat (why is the enemy the enemy exactly? Read the daily mail to find out).

    Moving from emotion to pragmatism, from tribalism to globalism, we can see that a threat from within can never be chased out but must be understood, we must give compassion and understanding to the problem, we act as though the opposite of antisocial is hatred, we take Brady with his disdain for society and we in affect say to him, well if you don’t like us then we don’t like you, so get stuffed you weirdo, the opposite of antisocial is social, lets use society to solve the problems of society.

    If I can use a metaphor, cancer is a disease where-being the cells of the body behave in an unexpected and detrimental way, given the chance they multiply and prevent the body from functioning. We traditionally cut the cancer out, kill the misbehaving cells, cancer often returns because it is hard to remove all the cells, and of course often the cause of the misbehaviour is not addressed.

    But if we could treat the misbehaving cells, enabling them to get back to acting in tune with the rest of the body, then the whole problem goes away, no killing, no cutting, and no demonising.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A perfectly balanced and understanding analysis.

      Delete
    2. Perhaps because I have cancer, I feel it necessary to comment on the metaphor using cancer. Specifically, the posting, "if we could treat the misbehaving cells, enabling them to get back to acting in tune with the rest of the body, then the whole problem goes away." A cancer cell is indeed "misbehaving" but it can't be treated so it will "get back to acting in tune." It is a different entity from all the other billions of cells in the body. This would be like treating a duck so it will be a pig. There is no other choice but to kill the cancer cell.

      It is no more possible to convert a cancer cell to a different type than it is to make a red blood cell into a white blood cell. If technology is ever able to do something like that, it will also be on the verge of changing a pig into an eagle or a horse into a human.

      Delete
  33. I would just like to remind you all about Mr Brady. He committed those awful crimes 50 years ago and some of you believe he has acted with dignity and should be moved to an open prison. That man has continued to commit a crime every single day of his incarceration by denying a decent burial for young Keith Bennett not to mention the additional pain and suffering he put Keith´s poor mother through. The man is a psychopath and continues to manipulate, control, inflict suffering and cause controversy to this day and that is exactly what he enjoys. Let him rot? Burn him? Execute him? You will just give him even more publicity. Strike his name from the records, remove all trace of his existence and let the world move on and forget his name and that he was ever born. That's my opinion anyway

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hello Paul,

      I do not believe Brady should be in open prison. He has also never expressed any desire to be anywhere else but behind bars. He has never appealed or argued that his sentencing was wrong.

      I understand your viewpoint and you express it very well, but surely we must be able to study this man. The causes and effects of such crimes, the understanding of them, will only lead to enabling us to, hopefully, avoid such things in the future. The studying of behaviours can not have a detrimental effect and can only educate us further.

      Regards,

      RK.

      Delete
  34. Brady lost all human rights the day he murdered his helpless child victims.

    The couple of freaks on here defending him and feeling `protective' towards him (aw, bless) probably have a similar, secret, harbouring dark side as the monster in question, bolstered by the shared view on `Peeping Tom'.

    Anyone who can sympathise with someone like Brady speaks volumes about these kind of people....and yes, you are in the minority, thank God!

    No doubt the author of this page will jump up and down with glee in the fact that yet another person has somehow stumbled onto his page to read this horrific transcript....the spider has caught another fly, right? I must be just as sick as you for wanting to read your page...right?

    You keep believing that, Brady worshipper. Keep telling yourself you are normal, and that your viewpoint is totally normal.....

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Firstly, I'm female. Secondly, this blog has had tens of thousands of views.

      Your opinion is typical of the simplistic view of the general public. I have studied psychology and my interest lies with those incarcerated.

      I will not rant, rave and pretend to be affected by something which did not happen to me.

      Sorry if this does not fit your ideal of how all in a society should be and you just keep lapping up the gory details of murders within tabloids on a daily basis and searching for terms online you deem 'sick'.

      Delete
    2. I suggest to you, you are the largest hypocrite here, while others may scan a daily paper and pass judgement...you go through it all and publish it on the internet, you say it is impossible to find this transcript in its entirety so you make it available, you are creating the same interest you are condemning the media for, no one else has made this available but you painstakingly type, and make it available to all, for what reason...anyone who really wanted to see it could...you did...you in fact incite what you claim makes others morons who allow media to whip them into a frenzy... makes you no better than any journalist.
      You intimate that others lap up the gore and read this vicariously...indeed you are the one who is biggest at fault here....some may scan this....have a reactionary opinion or rant and move on....you however, are living in it...sharing it and enjoying the notoriety, you seem to have more condemnation for the people you are attracting surely it is you who enjoys the controversy and debate and wants to have connection with this.
      You write to him...why...maybe the same interest that brings others here...why is it they are gore hunters but you are not...No one forces you to be around him or listen you choose that, if you were genuine you could look into this privately but you don't, do you need the notoriety that you condemn others for having.

      Delete
    3. I am as ghoulish, make no mistake. I am responding to people who are pretending not to be.

      You have written so many comments to me now, most unpublished due to their repetitiveness, so you aren't just 'moving on' are you? Why pretend you are only having a quick scan when you must have taken an hour or so to write all of those walls of text?

      I don't condemn the media for publishing gory details, I'm condemning the media and its moral crusade. If you can't see the hypocrisy in the media I suggest you look harder and stop bowing to your defensive and reactionary urges to write ill-informed nonsense.

      I was looking into the whole thing privately, for many years, why not share it? Many people are interested in the same thing and I'm glad to provide information for them. People should know they are not alone in their fascination and empathy. They write to me and say they have been made to feel as though they are odd for not wishing death upon somebody. What a mixed-up society.

      I suggest you aren't reading my arguments at all and that you're jumping to typical conclusions. You should stop getting so emotional about it, jumping to the defence of unknown persons who can't even express themselves in a suitable fashion.

      You refuse to understand that we are interested in the psychology, philosophy and motivations of serial killers. We view it as a retrospective, a rare display of how dark human nature can be. It is intriguing, fascinating and we will not apologise for it just to make you feel better about yourself.

      Delete
  35. Peter Sotos has much to say on this
    go here & check out the "Pure" pdfs
    http://bbr666.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Peter%20Sotos?zx=7286f35b723e9703

    ReplyDelete
  36. I have to commend you, Schadenfreude. You take the abuse you recieve in these comments and then reply with such a level headed and brutal honesty. I find it refreshing.

    People who search for these details and then post their comments railing against everyone else who did the same, they sort of remind me of the guys who attack gays when people are around, but then proposition them behind closed doors. When someone protests so vociferously against something, they usually just appear to be harboring a deep-rooted yearning for the very thing they're acting out against. I'd be more worried about these people than the ones who are genuinely and openly interested in the case itself.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Hello Sean.

    thanks for commenting. Yes there is something worrying about the level of angst and need for retaliation displayed by these people. It is certainly as though they are afraid of not conforming to the typical lynch-mob mentality for fear of them being exposed as worse than those they are protesting about.

    The lack of a need to question, understand and rationalise is something which is very wrong with society on the whole. It is as evident here as anywhere else.

    Hope to hear from you again,

    RK.

    ReplyDelete
  38. http://www.authorhouse.co.uk/Bookstore/BookDetail.aspx?BookId=SKU-000689879

    Our book out now explains in detail what we have one Brady and Hindley. we have been working on this for 2 years, and I have taken him on from his quotes and books that the pair read. You may be quite shocked to read about his obsession with the 1920s, the ART he used and visual Art from the photographs and even living this and bringing it to life as realism. The book explains the symbolism we have discovered and shows items found in an area never been searched by police. Brady himself had no objections to the book, what we have is not like anything out there. The symbol of the glove, why he chose to live in Gorton and how we have dates that he murdered on being important. We are still searching for a victim and Keith Bennett, We also have pages on you tube and Facebook that show the symbolism in detail. The Secret Key to the Moors Murders .

    ReplyDelete
  39. Brady needs no one on his side, needs no ones pity, does not need protecting, he is a evil, vile piece of garbage, Who deserves to know he will never walk as a free man,50 yrs In prison. glad and hope he lives a long long life,hope every minute of life he has every breath he takes should be taken inside A prison cell. He destroyed many peoples lives, he killed 5 children, for no partiular reason. other than he wanted to...those children, never got the chance to fall in love, to marry to have children of there own, not only did brady kill thoses kids, he killed the mothers of those children, every minute they spent in hell, remembering what happend to those children, they never again slept peacefully.. Brady does not deserve freedom, and he dose not seek freedom..he is a disgusting piece of trash he should be shackled to a wall, for eternity.'

    ReplyDelete
  40. It wasn't that hard if you knew the right people and kept your mouth shut to get a copy of the tape around certain Manchester pubs in the 70's and 80's. I heard about the first three or four minutes of it and that was enough for me.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Hey RK - where did the other pages go from your site? C

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hello again,

      sometimes I unpublish other posts when I know I won't be able to respond for a while. I always keep this post up as it's most popular.I keep meaning to write some new posts but hardly find time... soon, hopefully!

      Delete